Best Way To Prevent War, Support Resolutions For Possible War

October 26, 2007 at 3:16 pm | Posted in Iran, War | 13 Comments

In the typical Rovian neo-conservative fashion and strategy, the Bush administration and its allies are saying today that the best way to prevent war with Iran is to support war with Iran! Or as they said in 2002, the best way to avoid war with Iraq is to support war with Iraq!

In 2002 they said:

Moreover, unlike 1991, passage of the resolution does not mean that a war is imminent. Indeed, as the vote neared, Bush and members of his administration in recent days have deliberately toned down their tough rhetoric. The notion that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein must be toppled has been shoved in the background, while instead officials argue that the best way to prevent a war is strong support from Congress and the U.N. Security Council for a possible war, because it will demonstrate to Hussein that he has no choice but to give up his weapons of mass destruction.

In 2007 they said:

In approving far-reaching, new unilateral sanctions against Iran, President Bush signaled yesterday that he intends to pursue a strategy of gradually escalating financial, diplomatic and political pressure on Tehran, aimed not at starting a new war in the Middle East, his advisers said, but at preventing one.

Bush believes Tehran will not seriously discuss limiting its nuclear ambitions or pulling back from its involvement in Iraq unless it experiences significantly more pressure than the United States and the international community have been able to exert so far, according to administration officials and others familiar with the president’s thinking.

You ready for another war, America. You ready to sacrifice more of your sons and daughters for, well…not sure what exactly.

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13 Comments »

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  1. More often than not, war is the only answer. Especially when dealing with mentally incompetent dictators and religious fanatical Islamists who have no concept whatsoever of negotiation or real politiks. Negotiation is not a zero-sum game.

    Without warfare, the United States would not exist. America was born on the battlefield. The Declaration of Independence was noble words penned on parchment. But it was the sword that gave them reality.

    Today, the choice is warfare and violence or total submission to Islamofascism, the annihilation of Israel and the Jewish people, the subjugation of women, and a dhimmi status for those infidels still alive in a world governed by a 7th century barbaric desert ethos.

  2. David,

    I’m sorry to hear that you bought the irrational line of thought of neo-conservatives that “those people” can’t be bargained with, can’t be reasoned with, don’t feel pity or remorse, and won’t stop until we’re all dead. We’re not talking about Terminators here. They are actually human beings, and they are actually quite intelligent.

    Especially when dealing with mentally incompetent dictators and religious fanatical Islamists who have no concept whatsoever of negotiation or real politiks.

    They are not mentally incompetent. It’s ironic that you say “dictators” because apparently we CAN actually talk to and reason with Islamist dictators. After all our great ally in the Middle East is the Islamist Saud family. Religious fanatical Islamists? How does the Saud family not fit that category? Yet we can deal with them quite well. No concept of negotiation or real politik? Please. David, neo-cons are just that. Con men. They are fake. They are not telling you the truth about the Middle East.

    More often than not, war is the only answer

    This ends up being your worst point, as history disproves this. More often than not, peace solved problems at an exponentially greater rate than war has. But 9/11 has blinded you and all you see is blood.

    Without warfare, the United States would not exist

    Actually that is not true. America was not born on the battlefield, but in the halls of Congress. It was not the sword that gave them reality, but the British deciding warfare was not worth it. Be glad they felt that continuing to utterly destroy America was not worth their efforts.

    Today, the choice is warfare and violence or total submission to Islamofascism

    So sad that you believe that your country is so weak that your only options are war or submission. Do you realize just how much you insult your own country? You are saying that America is so weak that a backwards country can force it to submit to its medieval religion. Do you really think that you are that weak? I certainly don’t see my country that weak. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for denigrating your country like so.

    the annihilation of Israel and the Jewish people

    That would only happen the more war WE bring to the Middle East. So if you truly want to save Israel, STOP FIGHTING in the Middle East!

    the subjugation of women

    This is gotta be the most laughable one of Christian rightists, seeing that they already subjugate their women.

    and a dhimmi status for those infidels still alive in a world governed by a 7th century barbaric desert ethos.

    Yep, again you think your country is so weak. So sad.

  3. David,

    For your consideration:

    “Except for ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism WAR has never solved anything.”

    This is one of the greatest falsities in the history of the world. Slavery isn’t ended (and our own Civil War may have ended sanctioned slavery, but didn’t change the standing of the black American until non-violence achieved change of heart in the 1950’s and 60’s). Fascism isn’t ended (see Dick Cheney). Nazism has so many lives and permutations and continues to grow and strengthen all over the globe, but especially in Germany and Eastern Europe. Communism wasn’t ended by war either as it continues to exist in so many areas of the world. Besides, there is a lot of evidence that Marx actually won. His goal was democratic socialism and if you want to read the planks of the Communist Manifesto and compare them to the socialism of Western Europe, you may be surprised.

    The truth is that war never solved anything. It just lays the groundwork for the next war. You cannot defeat idealogies with violence, only with truth. To think otherwise is self-deception.

    The only real solution is to change human hearts. I understand that you believe that Islamist terrorists cannot change, but I don’t.

    “And so the nonviolent resister never lets this idea go, that there is something within human nature that can respond to goodness. So that a Jesus of Nazareth or a Mohandas Gandhi can appeal to human beings and appeal to that element of evil within them, and a Hitler can appeal to the element of evil within them. But we must never forget that there is something within human nature that can respond to goodness, that man is not totally depraved; to put it in theological terms, the image of God is never totally done.”

    If you believe that human beings have a divine component, then you must believe that aspect can be accessed through true love and changed. And America presents the best chance of carrying this ideal throughout the world if we will loose our hubris and arrogance and actually implement the teachings of Jesus Christ.

  4. Sorry, that quote in the middle was from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

  5. Daniel,

    The House of Saud is not an ally in the war on terror. The root of radical Islamism was born in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. Since 1946, trillions and trillions of oil dollars have poured into House of Saud’s treasury, and what did they do with it? Diversify the economy? Launch new industries? Open up the tourism sector? Not a thing. The country is the same wasteland, literally and psychologically; it was a hundred years ago. So where did all the money go? It went to exporting and transforming world-wide Wahhabism, a derelict fetish of isolated 7th century Islamic fanatics that has become the most influential radicalizing force in our time.

    More often than not, war is the only answer. You say that history disproves this. I believe that history proves this quite well. Look at the Palestinian Peace Process. All process and no peace – after 50 years. The Gaza Strip and the West Bank have become the largest and oldest U.N. refugee camp in history. Unless the two or more countries involved were true democracies, I can not think of a single instance in history where negotiation trumped warfare. If you can, I’d would like to hear it.

    How can you dispute that the United States was not born on the battlefield? There was no way King George III was not about to let its American colony go without a fight. The War for Independence lasted for eight long years and cost the lives of some 25,000 Americans – almost 1% of the population. If, as you say, the British decided the war wasn’t worth it, they must have come to that conclusion in 1778 when the French army and naval forces joined with America, followed a year later by Spain’s entry into the war.

    A choice between warfare and submission is hyperbole on my part. Nevertheless, radical Islamism today is what communism and fascism was yesterday – a profound danger to the world.

    America’s presence in the Middle East has absolutely nothing at all to do with Ahmadinejad’s wish to annihilate Israel, the Palestinians desire to push the Jews into the sea, or the death threats, veiled and otherwise, from a half dozen or so other Muslim countries. To equate the salvation of Israel with the withdrawal of American forces from the Middle East is preposterous. The Arabs have been trying to kill the Jews since day two of Israel. On May 14, 1948, long before any US forces were in the Middle East, Israel declared its independence. The following day, May 15th, 1948, five Arab countries – Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq – attacked the newborn nation of Israel.

    I was not aware of the Christian subjugation of women. Could you please expound and perhaps compare the similarities of subjugation between a Christian American woman a Muslim Saudi woman?

  6. For some reason, my comment prior to the one regarding the quote from MLK jr. is still waiting moderation

  7. hey Mike,

    Sorry, I was away and couldn’t get to it. Your comment is up now.

  8. David,

    Thank you for your reply. I’ll get back to responding in more detail when I have more time.

  9. David,

    “More often than not, war is the only answer. You say that history disproves this. I believe that history proves this quite well. Look at the Palestinian Peace Process. All process and no peace – after 50 years. The Gaza Strip and the West Bank have become the largest and oldest U.N. refugee camp in history. Unless the two or more countries involved were true democracies, I can not think of a single instance in history where negotiation trumped warfare. If you can, I’d would like to hear it.”

    Every time a war has not happened it has been a success for negotiations. War is always an option, but I dispute that it is the only answer. It is usually the worst answer and should be a last option. Wars of the United States are usually not a necessary measure, but are often used to achieve a specific political purpose, to further our influence in the world, to gain power and access to markets etc. The Iraq war, it appears, has been fought to gain control over oil resources in the region etc. War is a tool used by our corrupt leaders to get further in this world and to continue to expand and maintain US empire. War is a racket where huge corporations get filthy rich and young men die and women are widowed and kids are orphaned while people in foreign nations are ravaged by our military while we hardly recognize their existence let alone their deaths.

    The Gaza strip is a good example of this. The process is not a peace process. It is a process of forcing the Gazans to accept the will of the Israeli government. There is resistance against this which is understandable and thus we have conflict. A good example of this is the recent Gaza-West Bank split. The CIA provided funds and weapons to Fatah and stirred up a civil conflict purposefully… disregarding the democratic will of the people of Palestine who voted Hamas to power a nearly 2 years ago. We are not for peace, but only for the submission of anyone who does not bow down to our will. That is not peace. War is only necessary for the twisted minds of those who want to rule the world. Other than that, war is a really bad choice most of the time.

  10. David,

    if war was indeed most often the only answer, then we’d never live in peace, and, frankly, life wouldn’t be worth living. What would be the point of living life if all we are doing is going around killing each other?

    In regards to Iran Matthew Yglesias quotes Philip Gordon who says:

    Fifth and finally, the United States should complement its efforts to increase the price Iran pays for lack of compliance with the will of the international community with incentives for Iran to cooperate. So long as Iranians believe the United States is implacably opposed to their country no matter what they do they are unlikely to compromise on the nuclear issue. But if Iranians can be convinced not only that there are high costs of pursing nuclear weapons but also concrete benefits for not doing so, there is a chance that an agreement can be reached.

    Now THAT is smart thinking.

  11. How can you call Dick Cheney a fascist? A fascist is one who believes in a one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, belligerent nationalism and racism. For Goodness sakes; Cheney only fired his shotgun at a friend and he is related no less than to Barack Obama!

    To say that war has never solved anything is disingenuous. World War II stopped Hitler’s Thousand Year Reich and Nazi domination of Europe, North Africa, and Russia. It buried Tojo and imperial Japan’s quest for a Nipponese sphere that would have enslaved all of the South Pacific and Southeast Asia. Before that, World War I defeated Kaiser Wilhelm’s march through Europe and the Balkans. British Admiral Lord Nelson’s victory in 1805 over the French in the Battle of Trafalgar assured British supremacy of the seas for the next 150 years. I could name war after war, battle after battle, but the point remains the same. Warfare has solved many a “disagreement.”

    Nazism, fascism, communism, socialism, Islamism – there are all sorts of “isms” that will dwell and grow in the disaffected, the disillusioned, the discontented, and the disadvantaged. They need only a unifying agent – an agent of change who will lead them to the Promised Land or 72 Black-eyed virgins, dependent upon your deity; God or Allah. Or maybe Kim Jong-il if you’re an NK.

    I believe you are right in the long run. The only lasting solution is to change human hearts. And no, we will not change ideology with war, but until we can change the next generation with truth, we have to take this one out. To do otherwise will assure the next generation learns only from the one today.

    In the annals of human history, the non-violent resistor has made significant changes; Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King, probably the best known. In both instances, however, their non-violent resistance was in democratized countries with a relatively fair justice system. Had Ghandi tried his civil disobedience in late 1940’s Pakistan, Syria, or Saudi Arabia, his head would have been on the chopping block. Had Martin Luther King marched in Cape Town, South Africa instead of Selma, Alabama, he would have shared Nelson Mandela’s jail cell for the next 27 years. When the Byrds sang “There is a Season,” taken from Ecclesiastes, “To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time of war and a time of peace” they had it right.

    In the end, we both agree. To borrow from Bill Bennett, America is the world’s last best hope.

  12. David,

    You forgot the world’s greatest pacifist: Jesus Christ.

  13. David, you make this far too easy 🙂

    “How can you call Dick Cheney a fascist? A fascist is one who believes in a one-party dictatorship [check, Rove calls it something like the permanent Republican majority, created and enforced by gerrymandering and fear-mongering], forcible suppression of opposition [check, domestic spying on political opponents and peace activists, labelling all those who oppose his fascism unpatriotic and traitors setting the stage for increased future repression, and above all using lawyers to promote the destruction of checks and balances and to claim the executive branch has the authority to break any law and incarcerate without any legal representation anyone it wants as long as a lawyer appointed by him (likely via David Addington) writes a memo saying so], belligerent nationalism [do I even need to say anything on this one?] and racism [I know a million dead Iraqis whose lives Cheney cares less than his spit about who will vouch for this one, to say nothing of the Lebanese, Palestinians, and Somalis he’s directly helped get killed].”


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