Californians Strongly Against Proposition 8

September 18, 2008 at 11:04 pm | Posted in American politics | 9 Comments

down by 17 points are those in favor. I think it will end up with an even greater number against this proposition. The failure on the part of religions who have been against homosexual marriage is that for too long they only used vague warnings of threats to marriage, without actually talking sensibly about the problem really is, how it really does affect heterosexual marriage.

The thing is that we’ve had homosexual marriage in Massachusetts for four years now and the state hasn’t collapsed into the ocean. This may not actually mean that God won’t eventually punish the state of Massachusetts, or sometime later, the state of California. But what it does mean is that religions are failing to convince the public of the possible danger of this course because they have chosen to use hyperbolic language rather than present their more reasoned position. This may be due to the fact that they don’t have a reasoned position. Whether they do or not, most people in this nation have come to the conclusion that they don’t.



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  1. One scenario that I’ve heard is that it is possible that the Church will be prosecuted for not accepting gay marriage, or performing gay marriage ceremonies. Is this true? Could this possibly happen?

  2. Those are not possible scenarios. Or better said, improbable, because the possibility always exists. But the possibility exists for a lot of scenarios that would be even more extreme. The point is that the probability of something like that happening is quite low and not worthy of concern.

    Churches currently cannot be forced to do things against their principles. This is under the current law (which allows gay marriage). Churches have the ability to decline service. They have the ability to excommunicate whomever they desire out of their community for whatever reason they desire. If a church wants to excommunicate you because you are fat, then tough luck. Churches can excommunicate people who perform homosexual acts. They will always be able to do this, because the first amendment to the Constitution allows for the free practice of religion.

  3. Mass is starting to collapse. Part of the reason I left for California but now that is starting to collapse too. The real issue is that no one will be able to read the bible and state the obvious about what it says about Homosexuality.
    Already in place in Mass:

    1. Catholic adoptions have stopped because they could not restrict who could adopt kids to traditional marriage

    2. A suit of a bible publisher for hate speech.

    In the end it will limit free speech. That is bad. And any sane person realizes that kids need the benefit of a father and mother to balance them and ready them for life. Its just common sense.

  4. Guy,

    How is Massachusetts collapsing?

  5. i have asked many lds people why they are against gay marriage. they say it’s because our prophet told us it would ruin the sanctity of marriage. when i ask how it could ruin it, i get the run around,”what do you mean how?? it’s a sin!” so? that still doesn’t answer the question of how it could ruin it. it’s not going to ruin MY marriage to my husband if two men or two women could marry. does it make my wedding in the temple less special? no. does it dampen the spirit in my family? no. so how can it ruin it? no one can give me a straight answer. this is when they get frustrated and try to attack me, “well, if you don’t want to follow the promptings of the prophet, then that’s up to you. you can follow your own teachings. i’m going to follow the Lord’s!” we were also told BY THE PROPHETS to fast and pray to get our own answers to everything they advice. i guess those sheep missed that part and went straight to the “blindly following” part.

  6. big_smartmouth,

    It’s pretty clear what the Church position is on Marriage.

    Why not let CA define marriage in a way that our Church teachings direct us to define marriage?

    What is wrong with that?

    How is that definition detrimental to anyone? “Because then some people can’t get married!”

    So what? We believe in marriage being sacred and holy, what would marriage provide for SSM folks that partnership doesn’t? Nothing except for the title “married”.

    For us, marriage is significant in more ways than just the title “married”.

  7. Really truther? And have you pressed for making it illegal to rush off to Vegas and marry overnight? If, truly, you believe marriage to be more “significant” “sacred” and “holy” then surely you are making all the efforts you can to stop Las Vegas marriages that make a mockery of marriage.

  8. If marriage between a man and a woman occurs in Vegas, what’s wrong with it? It is lawful. If I believed in your logic, I would be against any marriage except for temple sealings beause they make a mockery of marriage.

    I don’t think SSM makes a mockery of marriage at all. I think that we have the chance to define marriage legally according to what we believe is God’s definition of marriage.

    SSM supporters believe that marriage is defined as something else.

    Either way, the world won’t end, basic rights won’t change, and it will be decided that marriage ought to be defined according to one group’s beliefs. Why not ours?

  9. why not ours? Because not everybody on this planet or in our nation has accepted our standards, and thusly they cannot be held accountable to our standards. That’s why not. That’s why in a multi-cultural nation like ours, you work for laws that allow everyone the same privilege.

    Frankly, I think that marriage should not be a state legitimized issue, but returned back to religions to decide for themselves. This will benefit everyone. Mormons can believe what they want, and gays can find religions (or create their own) that will allow gay marriage. Everybody is happy.

    I’m kinda surprised that conservative Mormons prefer the Federal or State government dictating what they should believe…something smells wrong about that.

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